Would the backend of a web application still be consider web programming?
Even though I agree with the general point youâre making, I must humbly disagree with the phrase âPretty soon, all programming will be web programmingâ. As a web, mobile and desktop developer I realize that without desktop developers (to write the OS, Browsers, media plugins, etc.) there can be no web development. To develop is to progress and if OS, browser or media should ever come to a halt, inevitably, so will the web.
Just my two cents.
âI sure hope that technology thatâs easy enough that anyone could use it doesnât become popular, because if programming becomes mainstream I wonât be able to be as convincing at projecting an aura of condescention at anyone who canât program a computer.â - Breton
No, because when it does become mainstream, everyone thinks they can do it and thedailywtf will be able to update 10x/daily and wonât ever have to recycle articles again.
âWill anyone other than the stinky bearded guy that nobody will invite to parties really notice?â
Yes - the developer who inherits the project.
My wallpaper changer, www.PictureShare.net, will never be a web app. Utilities can be pretty useful.
Thatâs not to say there isnât a web component to my wallpaper changer, there certainly is. But I did find writing the web part to be incredibly boring and writing the rich-UI on the client to be very rewarding. UI on the web sucks ass compared to what you can do with a desktop program.
Got to love the attitude several people have here.
âThe reason most people want to program in C, C++ or Java is that theyâre not smart enough to do anything else. They donât understand assemblers, registers or hexadecimal. They havenât got a clue why you would use loop unrolling or bitshifting.â
⌠Or maybe they havenât had the need nor the time to learn those things yet? Why is it that whatever [More Low-Level] technology you happen to use makes you smart, and whatever everybody else is using does not?
In case you didnât notice, none of the programming is actually rocket science. Itâs about combining logic to achieve the desired outcome. So if you happen to prefer one way of doing it, maybe it isnât the only way of doing it?
I can appreciate a good craftsman whatever his/her trade is. I wish you people could too.
I hate to put the spanner in the works because this is pretty unrelated, but kind of isnât at the same time.
we wrote a web application that isnât for the internet. OMG!
intranet web application. we replaced a desktop application that had bi-monthly service updates and bi-annual version updates. suffice to say, users got to sometimes use the application when it wasnât down or being quote unquote upgraded.
true, it isnât developed for the masses but the concepts are the same. good ol asp and javascript completely replacing a pretty robust desktop application. and the thing is, it needed to be written pretty darn well or else the world would have gone kablooey.
advantages:
updates and upgrades done on the local server. ten minutes downtime on one box. everyone logs on in the morning and oooohs and aaaaaahs.
i donât weâre skipping an important point here. bad programmers can also code bad desktop applications!
Jeff you need to fix the comment system (ie add in some sort of digg/reddit style moebob), who is actually going to read through this many comments?
I BET NO ONE EVEN READS THIS ONE
Jeff, I think you should go back to the original post and read some of the comments Braude left. At least someone has the balls to partake in the conversation.
Nice flamebait Jeff, I love it.
You know, the thing is, we donât all work for Vertigo working on fun little happy web projects, or off to start some pseudo-blog.
Perhaps if you didnât generalize everything into nice little boxes other people would too.
Jerk.
I agree with one thing, is that 99% of web applications are crap (or just about it) because nobody teaches âhow things work behind the browserâ. How many times have I read âwhy canât PHP access the DOM?â, or âcan I connect to MySQL from my web page (javascript)?â âŚToo many people/programmer are just clueless because nobody taught them better. The desktop market is not dead, as there will always be software that are not intended to be run in a browser; simulators, games, operating systems (servers, etc.), browsers, version control systems, editors (development environments, etc.), virtual machines, etc. etc.
What next? Web programming is not mature, but will be. Look at what PHP 4 looked like, and what PHP 6 is looking now. Look at Java and how this platform enables powerful applications (Spring, Hibernate, GWT, Echo2, etc.) Of course this is merely a scratch on the surface.
In conclucion, I agree with the OP about too many clueless people write web applications, but the fact that these are more visible than the desktop application is a pretty darn good reason for me to go and write better web applications! It is, in fact, a pretty big challenge but both cannot be compared. The World Wide Web, and itâs availability in everybodyâs home is barely 20 years old; all the modern web technologies, most of them, are less than 10 years old. People will use these tools in clumsy ways because itâs fairly new, just like the early age of just about anything. Weâre pioneers of the Web. Those who donât want to be part of it, itâs fine with me⌠more âgoldâ for me 
Not to scare the people who brought up ATMs and banking software as desktop software, but when I walk into my bank their software is a website on their intranet. The fact that the monitor is sitting on the desk doesnât make it âdesktop softwareâ. And with Adobe AIR, that line is blurred even more.
I know for a fact that the 2nd biggest ATM manufacturerâs code is sitting in a mashed up version of IE, and contains all HTML, JavaScript, and Flash. It talks to the ATM hardware with ActiveX controls and JavaScript. I suspect the same is true for the biggest manufacturer, but I havenât seen their code firsthand.
I just wrote ATM software for a (much smaller) company in Adobe AIR; all HTML and JavaScript. Retail POS systems moved from ages-old DOS apps to ages-old VB apps, and are now dominated by HTML-based apps either in custom browsers or in âkiosk modeâ, available in nearly every current browser.
As programming languages evolve, they converge in many ways. In almost EVERY case, you can write the same application in any of a dozen languages, and it will be just as good (assuming a good skillset on the programmerâs part). Pick the best tool for the job and get it done, fanboy wars just make people on all sides look foolish.
Hi Jeff,
Lots of comments here. I am stopping reading your blog as often as I was. I see that money started to be involved in your internet activity and it is not as nice to read your writing as it was before. Itâs sad⌠maybe I will pop up here again, will see, but it is not the place I visit regularly anymoreâŚ
I donât agree. Maybe in the future will be decents hybrid desktop - web app. IMHO many many web appâs are crap.
@HB
Retail POS systems moved from ages-old DOS apps to ages-old VB apps, >>and are now dominated by HTML-based apps either in custom browsers or >>in âkiosk modeâ, available in nearly every current browser.
Thatâs because they are expanding their markets. Anyone with no experience in Retail POS Systems are able to program. Not specialist needed.
The post, and the responses to this point, just point out that this field is a heap of unprofessional sh1t. As I get older, the bar lowers still, and I shiver.
No, I donât want to stop anyone from building any software, but where did all the professionals go? Why is there so little serious discussion?
Our industry is rife with hobbyists that somehow get real jobs and think they know all the answers. They wage war on operating systems and language choice and promote superstition over fact. Stack Overflow is a fine example of this. The meek should shut the f-up.
Wake up people. There is supposed to be a glimmer of science in Computer Science. Start acting like scientists instead of alchemists with your lead-to-gold tinctures.
Iâm so over this sh1t.
I wish I had the chance to work with that guy, sounds like a real team player.
Perfectly put.
Rajeesh wrote: âPretty soon, all programming will be web programming. - I donât think so, because in future there wonât be a separation between a desktop programming and Web programmingâ
Thatâs exactly the point Jeff was trying to make in this post.
@RatBastard, Couldnât agree more, but our industry is ââŚrife with hobbyistsâŚâ who donât know sh1t, but know 5% more than the customers they mislead only because our industry is not regulated in any serious manner.
All ârealâ scientists (think Doctors, Engineers â real ones, Architects â again, real ones who design real buildings) have to pass board certifications on a regular basis.
Any dickweed with a copy of âTeach Yourself ASP.NET in 24 Hoursâ can call him/herself an Architect, and a dumba$$ customer doesnât know the difference.
- Computers? Will all be connected in the future.
- Drivers? Will be written for and distributed through the web.
- Operation systems? Will be distributed, updated and managed through the internet.
- Software in general is already being moved from your local hard disk onto web servers.
Thatâs what experts say and I think Jeff agrees with that.
If one stops to think about it for a moment the web has completely taken over of lives and as a web developer I have no issue with this what so ever. We are an increasing mobile society and this is just a fact a life. As a âweb developerâ does this mean I am any less qualified as my counter parts who are still maintaining legacy applications such as COBOL? I think not! In fact the âold timersâ I know worry that the clock is ticking on the legacy application and their days are numbers.
Many of the COBOL folks do a great job however as a current day web developer I know nothing of COBOL and the same holds true for current day technologies with many (not all) âold timersâ. I am no spring chicken myself but I love what I do and I am always learning.
Time are changing and in my opinion if one has to bash any given industry then I believe it just shows their lack of knowledge and maybe they also have their days numbered.